New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Anything else related to the Stage 1 V8
deaallen
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 26, 2022 4:27 pm

New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by deaallen »

Hello all,

I just joined the forum as I recently purchased a stage 1 and thought this might be the best place to get some advice.

Here's what I bought:
Image
Image


According to the Vin it was originally a 5 door station wagon, but as you can tell has since been turned into a truck cab pick up. It was imported from AUS over 12 years ago I was told.

I'm not quite sure how best to proceed with it now though. The chap I bought it off had no paperwork whatsoever! I have no import papers, no proof of any tax being paid on it, when I put the VIN into any Australian VIN checker I get back no results, and the same with the AUS reg. :?

I thought I might try and complete the V55-5 application to try and get it registered with the DVLA and see what they come back with, but even with that form theres a lot of information needed which I simply don't know nor have any idea where I could find out - things like stationary sound level :shock:

On top of that while searching the internet I read that I could cause myself more problems if I simple filled out the form without having the right information available, and that for unregistered cars with no history its best to do things in a certain order... unfortunately they didn't explain any further than that for obvious reasons.

So I guess what I'd like to know is what's the best way for me to proceed - should I contact HMRC and try and pay the import tax on it without having any shipping information, then contact the dvla and see if they're able to register is without having any history linked to the VIN?

Cheers, Dean
map1275
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:48 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by map1275 »

For a start you need to compile all the vehicle's actual details. Having had a body swap on top of a possibly iffy importation isn't going to help.

Have you started by matching the details on the Compliance Plate to those on the chassis? The assembly line number on the diff lock instructional placard may be one of the few that details exist for.
deaallen
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 26, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by deaallen »

Yeah I matched the chassis number with the VIN on the plate in the engine bay. The chassis number was on the rear left spring hanger which took me ages to work out, everywhere online suggested it should be on the front right :roll:

Only problem is I can't find any records of that VIN with any AUS vin checker, nor is the reg coming up with any records - I did read that any pre 89 VINs aren't kept on their online system though.... I wonder if I could contact anyone at land rover and see if they had any records of this vehicle ?
Cliff4WD
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by Cliff4WD »

Presumably when you checked the VIN here in the UK, it confirmed an export model (AUS) CSW. You say it has zero paperwork so I take it that there's no registration number either? Interesting that a vehicle would be imported 12 years ago and never registered. Not sure what you're supposed to do in these circumstances. Surely import duty must have been due, and you'd think paid, to get it through UK customs at import? You're going to have to talk to somebody about it if you ever intend to register it. You could buy a heritage certificate which will give you the build (and registration) date if nothing else.

https://www.britishmotormuseum.co.uk/ar ... rtificates
Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
deaallen
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 26, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by deaallen »

Hi Cliff,

Yeah I tried to check the vin here in the UK but that came back telling me its a 2010 discovery :? Truth be told I'm starting to wonder if I'm reading the VIN correctly anyway - its missing the SAL part which I have on my puma, but I read that can be normal with earlier trucks... Is there any security risk of me posting the VIN here on the internet?

The reg on the back is a queensland plate - 991 BVT, again that comes back with no results unfortunately. I don't actually know how long its been here in the UK, but the guy I bought it off told me he had had it for 12 years just sat in his yard collecting dust.

Thanks for the suggestion of the heritage certificate. I'll see if I can buy one off them, at least its a start.
map1275
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:48 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by map1275 »

As per your manual and handbook, chassis number is on the front right rail. Inside the wheel arch. From memory it should have the factory Asterix before and after.
There isn't a national registration system in Australia (except for Federal plates). State systems, or at least Qld. don't give you access to SFA. BVT isn't a period plate. Something like OQN- would be. So it's been reregisters for some reason. The correct VIN will only decode as RHD CKD for export.

Most of the details can be guessed. If it's a 14 0r 17 character code puts it in a date range. If it's a wagon or chassis cab leaves only the last six digits and whether these fit in with existing known cars. I doubt some Romanian car smuggling ring will take much notice.
deaallen
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 26, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by deaallen »

I found the chassis number on the rear left spring hanger, according to this site: https://www.lrfaq.org/FAQ.3.Chassis_Numbers.html it did list a possibility of "LHR" which was the reason I finally resorted to looking in that area.

The Chassis number I found was 504898 which matched the VIN on the plate:

Image

As you might be able to see, I read the whole VIN as LBCMV1AF504898 - Theres also the 4-83 stamped which I believed was the date of manufacture ?
Then there is that long number which is hard to make out - I believe it is 1-2-6-7-8-11-12-20-27A-28A with 32A-35A below but really hard to make out, I have no idea what that code is

Thanks again for all your help chaps, I'm at a bit of a loss with these older Land rovers
map1275
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:48 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by map1275 »

The fake date is a give-away. Even though hand stamping was known at that time. With a 14 character VIN it's not going to be a 1983 in any way or form.
Seating capacity is also missing. Cleaning off all the over-spray may help.
Have you looked on the RHF rail?

As per the way the Compliance Plate reads; the vehicle complies with the following ADR codes 1, 2... if you look up ADR version 2 codes you can see what each of them are.
deaallen
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 26, 2022 4:27 pm

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by deaallen »

Ah so that long number is just what the vehicle complies with ADR wise!

Yeah I had a good look at the RHF rail and definitely couldn't find anything, had a good look all all of the front part of the chassis before moving to the back and finding that chassis number.

By the sounds of it I've bought myself a very expensive life lesson then. Suppose that will teach me to get all excited by the thought of having a stage one :roll: :lol:

At this stage is there anyone I can contact to see if they have any records of this chassis number, I'm guessing Land rover are completely useless when it comes to the historic vehicles?
Cliff4WD
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by Cliff4WD »

The VIN that you quote is SALLBCMV1AF504898

and decodes:

Model Series III, Stage I or Lightweight
Class 109 inch
Body Type 5 door station wagon
Model Year 1981
Steering RHD
Engine 3.5 V8, Carburettor, Low Compression, Petrol
Gearbox 4 Speed Manual
Factory Completely Knocked Down
Sequential number 504898

This seems to fit what you have so April 1983 is probably about right for AUS registration too. The heritage certificate should give you the date of manufacture. The 10th digit of the VIN is A which denoted 1981 model year back then although now reused for 2010. Don't see why you can't register it if the VIN is legit.
Last edited by Cliff4WD on Mon May 30, 2022 11:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
map1275
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:48 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by map1275 »

BMH quote a generic excuse of disinterest for anything CKD. You would have to go there and book research time yourself. Ask stereotypical 'owner' questions and they won't let you in.
Cliff4WD
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by Cliff4WD »

map1275 wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 10:19 pm BMH quote a generic excuse of disinterest for anything CKD. You would have to go there and book research time yourself. Ask stereotypical 'owner' questions and they won't let you in.
Yep, but if you can afford to just buy a certificate then they issue it with whatever they have in the LR records against the VIN supplied. Generally this seems to be just the manufacture date and possibly registration.
Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
map1275
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:48 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by map1275 »

The generic statement for CKD is we have nothing and we won't even look, therefore they won't issue anything and refund the money you already paid.

There is an Australian heritage group that have nothing to do with BMH. Ex staff old boys club. They do issue certificates, based on the data YOU provide. They have no databases. As your data is already corrupted and you haven't stated the car number on the all wheel drive placard, chassis number in the wrong place... The most they will input is made at PMC Enfield.
Cliff4WD
Posts: 303
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by Cliff4WD »

map1275 wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 11:13 pm The generic statement for CKD is we have nothing and we won't even look, therefore they won't issue anything and refund the money you already paid.

There is an Australian heritage group that have nothing to do with BMH. Ex staff old boys club. They do issue certificates, based on the data YOU provide. They have no databases. As your data is already corrupted and you haven't stated the car number on the all wheel drive placard, chassis number in the wrong place... The most they will input is made at PMC Enfield.
Oh!

Well, forget about the certificate then. It's 'just' a matter of trying to register the vehicle with that VIN with the DVLA, so back where Dean started this thread :(

BTW, I've read somewhere that Stage One's might well have their chassis stamped on the left hand rear instead of the front right hand dumb iron, so it might be genuine. The details match with the VIN too. As for the 14 digit VIN, well that's just because the Manufacturer code for Land Rover (SAL) is omitted. Prefix it with SAL as I did and you have a 17 digit VIN that perfectly describes a Stage One made for world export. So a completely knocked down 1981 model Stage One exported to AUS would then have been built-up and registered there. Obviously the normal location of the AUS VIN plate I have no idea about, but the 1983 date seems to be in keeping with this trail. No alarm bells are ringing for me, it seems that the issue is lack of importation documentation here and not therefore knowing whether it was ever registered in the UK. The only way to find out is through the DVLA I would have thought.
Last edited by Cliff4WD on Tue May 31, 2022 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
map1275
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:48 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: New stage 1 owner - help registering with DLVA?

Post by map1275 »

Using my own database, car 504900 was a Sahara Dust wagon (no date recorded). Other close numbers are complianced early 1980. The assembly number will be in the low 40000s. These are with pressed dates. Not hand stamped, in the wrong place, with dramatically oversized punches, with a 3 overstamping a six.

The 14 digit VIN transitions to 17 characters in around 1981 as per the relevant service bulletin. Introducing the country code, SAL, SAR...

Having a wagon chassis 'may' simply be that it wouldn't matter for a tray back. The only different being the presence of tailgate hinges. The company was known to use whatever chassis was next to hand. Though I haven't noted any specific proven examples in this period.

https://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/land-ro ... ent-story/

The car may well have been driven to England, therefore worth enquiring whether the RAC keeps records of carnets.
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