Swivel Rebuild

V8_Disco · Post by **V8_Disco** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:01 pm

Hi all me again for some help

I have a leaking swivel, drivers side, its got some slight rusting at the top and has damaged the seal...

A couple of questions,

How long will it take if the bolts play ball

What parts would be best replaced while I am there

I was planing on one shot grease, any advice with this

I have heard rumers of balls beeing repaired, anyone had any sucess with this?

Aidan

5988 · Post by **5988** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:24 pm

If youve done it before you can do one in about 3 hrs if all goes well (having said that the other side took me about 5hrs as I couldn't get the pre load right on it)
Realistically allow a day then even if the bolts don't play you should be ok

You dont need to disconnect brakes etc (unbolt the back plate and cable tie it out the way, saves bleeding them)

one shot - Dont

I repaired the ones on my 88 with epoxy - lasted for a year then went soft and fell out ...need something more oil resistant (also took ages to do)

What else - Hub seal (you have to take the hub off and it will leak if you put it back ....then you'll need new brake shoes ...guess how i found that out

)
DONT try and replace the seal land, you cant on a stage 1 its part of the stub axle (nearly found that the expensive way as well

)
as you'll have that out , check clean and re-pack the wheel bearings while your there

You'll need a spring balance if you haven't got one

Check the rialko bush and pin, if there not great its easy to replace now rather than dismantle again when they get picked up at mot time)

V8_Disco · Post by **V8_Disco** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:42 pm

thanks, any hard to get bits or are they just expensive?

V8_Disco · Post by **V8_Disco** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:45 pm

anyone got the part numbers to hand,

Where is a good place the buy the parts book?

A

5988 · Post by **5988** » Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:49 pm

Rialko bushes are available from pegasus parts (only place ive found them)
Pins from P.A Banchard

They are not the normal series ones (found that out the expensive way as well

)

Swivels .....Good Luck

Can get part no's of pins etc later (have them on PC somewhere)

Jamie_grieve · Post by **Jamie_grieve** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:37 am

5988, why not one shot? It has far better high pressure lubricating properties than EP 90 and is now the Land Rover approved lubricant for the swivel housings. It also has the added advantage of not running out if there's pitting of the swivel housing.
The Railko bushings last much longer with it too.
Replace the tab washers for the swivel pin bolts, the tab washer for the wheel bearings. You've got a hub spanner eh? The half shaft oil seal is worth changing too seeing as you're in there and it's pennies. You might want some shims too.
You can also forget all that, pull off the new seal's spring, cut the swivel seal right through, twist it over the axle and superglue it back together. Put the spring back on, it simply twists together and as long as the retainers good and the cut bit's at the top it'll be as good as new and only takes 10 mins.

map1275 · Post by **map1275** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:54 am

Why not use it? Well although I have used it for Ser III (and for the wrong reasons) and was surprised by its penetration;

- it isn't L-R approved for retrofit to Ser III or earlier,
- there is NO specified quantity to be used for Ser III or earlier,
- if you have a pitted (knackered) hemisphere then replace it, instead of looking for a quick fix solution.

Using EP suggests the owner should be following the original service schedules and actually checking what is a high operator maintenance vehicle. Instead of looking for short cuts. As with 110 > with One shot, the unmentioned L-R service procedure is to now drive until the hub is knackered. As there is no means of checking the hub once One Shot equipped.

5988 · Post by **5988** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:23 am

Why not 1 Shot
Yes its approved for coils sprung vehicles, which have a different design of swivel
They have taper roller bearings at each end, and ar designed to give basically no resistance to turning
Ep90 being much thinner is much more likely to get through the tiny hole and lubricate the riako bush properly, I disagree about them lasting longer with it (given our 110 top bearings were running dry and it had 1 shot as LR specified, what chance does the rialko bush have of being lubricated). Having run one shot in one of my S2 swivels before changing the balls, and EP90 in the other the one with q shot was basically dry in the top, whereas the oil one was nicely lubricated
The rialko bush is also meant to give some friction and meant to run in ep90, using 1 shot (assuming any does get to it) will alter this

If your swivel balls are shot and leaking oil, one shot that doesnt leak is going to be better than oil that does as there will at least be some lubrication, but remember if oil can get out, water can get in

Fix the problem not the Symptom

V8_Disco · Post by **V8_Disco** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 7:41 pm

Thanks Chaps, I have tried to get Pegasus parts but 3 emails later no reply ...

I need the truck next weekend for a trip to scotland, disco needs an engine rebuild I was hoping to get the parts ordered and do the work this weekend ...

I am tempted to

1, top up with oil and keep an eye on it
2, use one shot untill I can get the parts together

Views?

Aidan

5988 · Post by **5988** » Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:49 pm

id just top it up with oil and keep an eye on it unless its realy bad
the bushes are on ebay as well
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Land-Rover-Series ... 41491a0400

expensive compare to normal series, but the only source i found
Id be tempted to get it in bits and then get them if needed

Pageant Blue 109 V8 · Post by **Pageant Blue 109 V8** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:50 am

Hello V8_Disco, just replied to your first email. We were doing a quality inspection visit all day yesterday.

Does anyone know if the early '6-bolt' Range-Rover Swivel Bearing Housing can be made to fit 109 V8? I guess the top Railko would have to be changed to taper bearing? But could everything else be made to fit fairly easily?

FRC 1931 is on back order which usually means one step away from obsolete.

Regards,

Paul.

map1275 · Post by **map1275** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 10:11 am

You can Make anything fit but legal and safe is another issue.

Main fault is the cast on steering arms which are in the wrong place.

5988 · Post by **5988** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 6:58 pm

Im not sure the swivel ball is the same size, didnt have the stage 1 when the RRC was in bits to compare
I dont think you could go to a taper bearing in the housing as the rialko provides the damping
Youd have to alter the housing to take the bush, and maybe go to RRC CV's to fit the housing-could be allot of work.
Reconditioning the old housing may be easier - not sure how easy re-chroming can be done, but cant be that hard
Oh and whats FRC1931 ....not got my parts book

V8_Disco · Post by **V8_Disco** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:57 pm

Thanks Paul got your email, will call in the morning

I will try and get hold of one sphere so I can keep the truck on the road, I will try and get the old one reconditioned, I know a couple of fab shops might pont me in the right direction for a good repair

thanks for the input chaps its most apprecated

Aidan

Jamie_grieve · Post by **Jamie_grieve** » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:06 pm

You can put a bearing in the top if you use a Santana top swivel pin. The bottom SIII bearing and Railko bush share the same dimensions. The Santana parts are identical apart from being better made and everything bar the half shafts is compatible. See the disc brake post for a parts list.
You could also cut the steering arm off a late series three and stick that in the top.
The Railko bush is a ridiculous thing and another example of 'great British' engineering. Show me another vehicle that uses them.
The damping is provided by the steering damper. The Railko bush only makes up for inadequacies in the manufacturing process to achieve an acceptable pre load.
You must drive really slow if you don't think the one shot doesn't get into that wee hole in the bottom. You need to lubricate the bush on assembly.
My shperes are in perfect condition after nearly 30 years because I've been using one shot in them for 15 of them. It wasn't called one shot then but rather swivel housing grease from Landrover genuine parts. My second set of axles I've just got rid of were rusty because they'd been filled with EP90 and the vehicle idle for years.
The pin to suit the swivel bearings looks really small but the side breaks out of the swivel housing before the pin breaks. I saw this on a Landy that went over an anti tank mine.
Show me another CV joint in another vehicle running in EP90. There's a reason for that.
Not sure why the top swivel was dry on the 110. I had 85xROW spec 110's for three years and three different types of top swivel and all had no real problems.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
I do however agree with fix the problem, not the symptom.