Hello everyone .
As a matter of general interest what do you think is a reasonable price for a disc brake conversion ?
Best Regards
Chris
Disc Brake Conversion
As per previous posting. The main question I usually ask is what is the benefit? As all the conversion for our vehicles have an extremely small swept area.
That only leaves self adjustment as the sole improvement.
The other question which sellers and would be buyers frequently avoid is; is it a legal conversion? All the kits I have seen so far, including Rocky Mountain, avoid the question.
That only leaves self adjustment as the sole improvement.
The other question which sellers and would be buyers frequently avoid is; is it a legal conversion? All the kits I have seen so far, including Rocky Mountain, avoid the question.
too expensive
I looked around and fell over laughing at the costs for "kits". That kind of money can be far better spent elsewhere!
1970 Spitfire MKIII
1981 Laser 1 88643
1982 Stage 1 v8 SW
1992 Laser 2 9101 "Purple Reign"
2000 Laser Pico 4050
2001 Brompton M3L
2010 VW California GP 140 SE
2010 Brompton M6L
2010 Venture Ranger 16 Canoe
2010 Cube Ltd Pro
1981 Laser 1 88643
1982 Stage 1 v8 SW
1992 Laser 2 9101 "Purple Reign"
2000 Laser Pico 4050
2001 Brompton M3L
2010 VW California GP 140 SE
2010 Brompton M6L
2010 Venture Ranger 16 Canoe
2010 Cube Ltd Pro
legality
Hello - thankyou for the replies .
I am very interested on your views on legality and if anyone could expand on this I would be very grateful .
The fact that many people may think it is not required etc is appreciated however the question was of course "how much do people think is a reasonable price for a conversion?"
Best Regards
Chris.
I am very interested on your views on legality and if anyone could expand on this I would be very grateful .
The fact that many people may think it is not required etc is appreciated however the question was of course "how much do people think is a reasonable price for a conversion?"
Best Regards
Chris.
Chris,
I think the answer is not necessarily what you were asking for but it is there. There is no reasonable cost for the conversion. The added benefit of a conversion is not outweighed by the cost of the conversion, and this is compounded by the requirement for post-conversion certification. Put another way, a conversion is not worth the money.
The brakes on the Stage 1 are not too bad, in general, and they can be improved when they are properly set up.
We have the same situation here but our certification requirements are seemingly more stringent. the general response to this question is if you really want coils/discs/etc. then buy a Disco. The Stage 1 is what it is, for good or ill.
Time was though that conversions on Series vehicles were cost effective, but that time has passed and frankly a Series vehicle has more value if it is original than if it has been "converted".
If, however, you have your heart set on it, having Googled:
http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/discBrake.htm
http://www.heystee-automotive.com/parts ... s/disc.htm
http://www.zeus.uk.com/land-rover.php
http://www.lr-parts.com/search.cgi?c=OT&v=S2
http://www.rockymountainspares.co.uk/?page_id=41
http://www.roversnorth.com/news/index.p ... i-1960-on/
I think the answer is not necessarily what you were asking for but it is there. There is no reasonable cost for the conversion. The added benefit of a conversion is not outweighed by the cost of the conversion, and this is compounded by the requirement for post-conversion certification. Put another way, a conversion is not worth the money.
The brakes on the Stage 1 are not too bad, in general, and they can be improved when they are properly set up.
We have the same situation here but our certification requirements are seemingly more stringent. the general response to this question is if you really want coils/discs/etc. then buy a Disco. The Stage 1 is what it is, for good or ill.
Time was though that conversions on Series vehicles were cost effective, but that time has passed and frankly a Series vehicle has more value if it is original than if it has been "converted".
If, however, you have your heart set on it, having Googled:
http://www.expeditionlandrover.info/discBrake.htm
http://www.heystee-automotive.com/parts ... s/disc.htm
http://www.zeus.uk.com/land-rover.php
http://www.lr-parts.com/search.cgi?c=OT&v=S2
http://www.rockymountainspares.co.uk/?page_id=41
http://www.roversnorth.com/news/index.p ... i-1960-on/
Alan
1983 ex-army FFR 109 Stage 1
2005 Disco 2 HSE TD5
1983 ex-army FFR 109 Stage 1
2005 Disco 2 HSE TD5
-
Mrs Bingham
- Posts: 230
- Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:39 pm
- Location: Essex, UK
Before you weigh up the cost of the conversion you may want to seek out compatibility first so you can get a true cost. The Stage 1 axle is completely different so I would suspect generic series disc conversion kits are probably not going to fit straight out of the box. The £700 kit I researched made me roll around laughing, but I also learnt that the wheel bearings are not metric for that kit so the stub axles have to be converted to the older imperial size. I’ve no idea if the earlier imperial stub axles fit the Stage 1!!!
To answer your question I don’t think the best part of a £1,000 for a disc conversion is worth the gain unless you intend on towing a horsebox down a ski slope!
As far as legality is concerned providing the installation is sound and it passes the MOT requirements then happy days. I would imagine the insurance company would need to be notified though??? The “seafront boys” are pop riveting brightly coloured brake callipers and diamond drilled discs to their Citroen Saxo’s all the time!
If you succeed for a reasonable cost and do so without butchering the unique Stage 1 axle let us know what parts you used for the conversion.
Good luck M…
To answer your question I don’t think the best part of a £1,000 for a disc conversion is worth the gain unless you intend on towing a horsebox down a ski slope!
As far as legality is concerned providing the installation is sound and it passes the MOT requirements then happy days. I would imagine the insurance company would need to be notified though??? The “seafront boys” are pop riveting brightly coloured brake callipers and diamond drilled discs to their Citroen Saxo’s all the time!
If you succeed for a reasonable cost and do so without butchering the unique Stage 1 axle let us know what parts you used for the conversion.
Good luck M…
1983 Stage 1 V8 Hardtop (Mrs Bingham)
Comparisons;
Though not L-R, I still get a lot of questions about disc conversions for Mini and others and the same response is valid.
Does your car have Fully Functional drum brakes? The answer isn't 'you think so' or changing the topic to "I thought discs would be better" or "Some one told me..."
Does your car have Fully Functional drum brakes?
I never get the answer of; "Yes. However my driving needs have exceeded their capabilities" or similar.
L-R drums are ordinary when compared to other manufacturers. Hard to balance etc. As per the old saying 'Remember, your weapon was made by the lowest bidder'. However they do work when well loved.
Legality;
I still haven't acquired a copy of the MOT's inspection requirements. Something I have been meaning to do. Anyone got a copy?
I will have refer to the Queensland system which is fairly logical. Australia doesn't have a national system due to the State Governments (Federal System of Government).
Simply slapping some form of disc brakes on a vehicle is Home Made Brakes and instant fail.
Brake design is a holistic approach and the whole vehicle has to be addressed; mass transfer, suspension dive, surface area and heat dissipation just to start with. Let alone the mechanical strength of the special bracket to mount a front calliper to a drum brake hub.
All of the sellers of the disc kits for Series L-R insist one kit fits all with nothing else to do! Therefore, logically all Ser II and III brakes must be exactly the same for every vehicle regardless of wheelbase, intended, market and year of production?!?! Pigs-ass they are!
Why do NONE of the kits have a simple quote along the lines "when fitted correctly, this conversion meets XYZ standards NO. 1234"???
For Rocky Mountain I am sure there would be some kind of Canadian or US Federal Standard. For the UK, a BS if they still exist, otherwise an E reference.
Please, go an ask your chosen supplier this! I really wish more people would because I know what the same people do when the vehicle is failed by the person they ask to certify the modification.
It is possible to do and approve such a modification but you need to approve the conversion first, by design. Not backwards by conversion and then insisting the officer signs off on someone else's unknown creation.
Locally (if done correctly) this would result in a design approval number. Hence why if some one in New Zealand could come up with Motor Corp documentation for the Army conversion. Assuming it wasn't all done on a Government Exemption of course.
Cost.
Well 700 GBP is nothing. If I could get a conversion to use 110 brakes and hubs I would spend twice that. Which would be realistic.
Locally, a major brake repair on a Ser III V8 could easily hit 1000 AUD and not move beyond the wheel stations.
- Four drums
- Two pair of Shoes
- Six cylinders
- Three hoses
- Two pipes between the front cylinders
- Fluid
- Sundries
And I haven't included labour or back plates. Plus the usual steering and suspension issues that would be identified at the same time.
Ideally 110 braking performance is what we are chasing. Similar body mass, similar hydraulic layout and dimensions of the remaining fluid system, mechanical advantage, vehicle load capacity...
Though not L-R, I still get a lot of questions about disc conversions for Mini and others and the same response is valid.
Does your car have Fully Functional drum brakes? The answer isn't 'you think so' or changing the topic to "I thought discs would be better" or "Some one told me..."
Does your car have Fully Functional drum brakes?
I never get the answer of; "Yes. However my driving needs have exceeded their capabilities" or similar.
L-R drums are ordinary when compared to other manufacturers. Hard to balance etc. As per the old saying 'Remember, your weapon was made by the lowest bidder'. However they do work when well loved.
Legality;
I still haven't acquired a copy of the MOT's inspection requirements. Something I have been meaning to do. Anyone got a copy?
I will have refer to the Queensland system which is fairly logical. Australia doesn't have a national system due to the State Governments (Federal System of Government).
Simply slapping some form of disc brakes on a vehicle is Home Made Brakes and instant fail.
Brake design is a holistic approach and the whole vehicle has to be addressed; mass transfer, suspension dive, surface area and heat dissipation just to start with. Let alone the mechanical strength of the special bracket to mount a front calliper to a drum brake hub.
All of the sellers of the disc kits for Series L-R insist one kit fits all with nothing else to do! Therefore, logically all Ser II and III brakes must be exactly the same for every vehicle regardless of wheelbase, intended, market and year of production?!?! Pigs-ass they are!
Why do NONE of the kits have a simple quote along the lines "when fitted correctly, this conversion meets XYZ standards NO. 1234"???
For Rocky Mountain I am sure there would be some kind of Canadian or US Federal Standard. For the UK, a BS if they still exist, otherwise an E reference.
Please, go an ask your chosen supplier this! I really wish more people would because I know what the same people do when the vehicle is failed by the person they ask to certify the modification.
It is possible to do and approve such a modification but you need to approve the conversion first, by design. Not backwards by conversion and then insisting the officer signs off on someone else's unknown creation.
Locally (if done correctly) this would result in a design approval number. Hence why if some one in New Zealand could come up with Motor Corp documentation for the Army conversion. Assuming it wasn't all done on a Government Exemption of course.
Cost.
Well 700 GBP is nothing. If I could get a conversion to use 110 brakes and hubs I would spend twice that. Which would be realistic.
Locally, a major brake repair on a Ser III V8 could easily hit 1000 AUD and not move beyond the wheel stations.
- Four drums
- Two pair of Shoes
- Six cylinders
- Three hoses
- Two pipes between the front cylinders
- Fluid
- Sundries
And I haven't included labour or back plates. Plus the usual steering and suspension issues that would be identified at the same time.
Ideally 110 braking performance is what we are chasing. Similar body mass, similar hydraulic layout and dimensions of the remaining fluid system, mechanical advantage, vehicle load capacity...
Disc brakes
Thankyou Mr Map 1275 .
This is what I call a response to the question . In theory it suggests you like the idea of improved safe legal braking on a series landrover .
Wouldn't it be helpful if this was possible within reasonable cost .
Regards
Chris .
This is what I call a response to the question . In theory it suggests you like the idea of improved safe legal braking on a series landrover .
Wouldn't it be helpful if this was possible within reasonable cost .
Regards
Chris .
Re: Disc brakes
Im not sure on the legalities over here, im not aware of any specific certification or similar. As far as i know the mot is a test what's presented check so as long as it meets the required efficiency its all goodBuckenham wrote:Thankyou Mr Map 1275 .
This is what I call a response to the question . In theory it suggests you like the idea of improved safe legal braking on a series landrover .
Wouldn't it be helpful if this was possible within reasonable cost .
Regards
Chris .
There is probably something in construction and use law though - but ive not looked
The worry id have is if you were in a serious accident and it could be some way linked to a braking problem, could you justify the conversion you'd done was safe ...you may have to so id never home modify brakes myself. Fitting a kit sold for the purpose yes, so long as the supplier can confirm it meets any legal requirements for road use over here -then if it all goes wrong you can pass the blame back to them.
There are alof of people play with brakes on series LR's , common ones seem to be fitting 109 brakes to 88's .....bad idea in my opinion, or even ive heard of fitting stage 1 brakes to an 88
, or bypassing the valve block on the chassis ....etc all these vehicles have mot's ....Cost wise the RM one is quite good value for what you get, but the stub axles would need chaning on a stage 1 to the earlier type - do they fit?
If i wanted them then £700 is probably quite cheap ...but for £300 ive got rebuilt drums, (and based on my 88 with 10" unassisted drums the stage 1 should stop well - the 88 can match my dads 110 - disks all round on stopping distance)
-
Jamie_grieve
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:10 am
This is a page from the Santana PS10 (Iveco Massif) parts book. Of interest is No 8 which is the swivel assy to mount a caliper to. Now you guys in NZ get the Iveco Massif and the parts backup this might be a legal, cheap and usefull option. The railko bush at the top is replaced by the same bearing as the swivel at the bottom. The calipers are a lucas girling but I don't know what else they fit or the discs either. I think the axle is otherwise very similar to the stage 1. It's 6" wider and the hubs are adapted to take the disc. The diffs and shafts are all the same 10 spline but the ratio is 3.9. Stub looks the same and bearings and seals as well. The chassis is 2" wider so the axle doesn't just bolt on.
-
Jamie_grieve
- Posts: 41
- Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:10 am
