Went to look at a Stage 1 yesterday, advice please?

[Larosto]

Hi,
installing a LPG-Kit is not as difficult as it seems.
After installing, the car will be controled by authorized mechanics, and so I will get a certification. It`s totaly legal then. The tank is fitted inside the car, so it can`t rust or be damaged. The tank and all other parts of the kit are tested and certificated. The tank can`t explode on LPG, even not in case of burning. There is a safteyvalve in it, which opens in case of fire or overpressure, and so the LPG can get out.
Here in Germany they tested cars which drive on LPG and those which drive on petrol about what would happen in case of an accident. The result was that cars with LPG-Kits fitted were not more dangerous than those on petrol.
Here are strong rules for installing an LPG-Kit, but if you follow them, you`ll have no problems.

regards
Horst

[db]

Stage 1 brakes are the same as 6-cyl (but not 4-cyl) Series 3

Mine has a later rear door (90/110 or Defender) with an extra hinge, heated glass and wash-wipe. One of these days I'll get round to wiring it all up! Also the spare tyre is higher and out of the way of the tow hitch.

David

[choc-ice]

If I go LPG I'd really like to put a small (40 litre?) tank under each front seat, then I don't lose any load space and it all looks neater.

A few real beginner questions because I've bought it and pick it up in 3 weeks - how do you drive it?

Clutch in to engage and disengage overdrive? Do you need to stop to engage the diff lock? With the centre diff locked 1 front and 1 rear wheel always have drive, is that right?

Thanks for the advice so far, very helpful!

[mattv8]

if you find the brakes really bad, you can get a conversion kit to disks & pads set up, cost a bit but could be worth it.. siff steering could be over tight king pins...

[Larosto]

Engaging and disengaging the overdrive you have to use the clutch.You mustn`t use the overdrive in first and second gear, `cause the torque could get to high. I think you`rè right if you say with the centrediff locked one rear and one front wheel is in action. I don`t know whether you have to stop for locking the center differential I drove very slowly while locking, and there wasn`t any problem at all.
You should think about two 40 ltr LPG tanks, because your car needs about 15 or 20 % more LPG than fuel. I fitted a 120 ltr tank inthe rear, and I was told that only the volume of 100 ltrs can realy be used, The rest is poor pressure. I think if you have two 40 ltr tanks, you must fill up to often.

regards
Horst

[Zirynx]

If I go LPG I'd really like to put a small (40 litre?) tank under each front seat, then I don't lose any load space and it all looks neater.

A few real beginner questions because I've bought it and pick it up in 3 weeks - how do you drive it?

Clutch in to engage and disengage overdrive? Do you need to stop to engage the diff lock? With the centre diff locked 1 front and 1 rear wheel always have drive, is that right?

Thanks for the advice so far, very helpful!

You sound exactly the way I felt when I bought my Stage 1 (first ever Land Rover experience!) a few months ago. Reassuringly, I can say it's really not difficult, but just remember that everything happens more slowly, requires more effort and, crucially, more road space. The turning circle was, to me, the most apparent of the Stage 1's drawbacks, especially when navigating mini-roundabouts! It's amusing to be going 'off-road' in a town centre!!

Pointers:

First, remember that the compartment under the driver's seat houses the battery. So, if you intend to utilise that space for an LPG tank, you'll need to relocate the battery. I do empathise with your thinking about not fitting a single big tank in the rear. Mine has a 120L tank mounted transversely behind the rear seats, and it definitely does encroach on load space. It's something I intend to address in the future, but not immediately.

Have a look at the bottom of this page for a conversion that might well interest you, although it is a little pricey. It's offered by a technician well known to this forum.

Second, the brakes. I remember first driving mine and wondering how Land Rover ever managed to sell these things legally! V8, drum brakes, no servo? I thought the brakes in mine were awful too, but after driving it a short while, I realised that in fact, they are effective, but they just require considerably more effort. It probably didn't help that I'd been driving a Lancia Delta Integrale beforehand! Four wheel drive, but of a different breed! Since then, someone more familiar with LRs has driven mine and reckons the brakes are as good as they get!!! In fact, I can lock a wheel on a dry road.

Overdrive: yes, use the clutch. Personally, most of the time I treat the overdrive as a (notional) 'fifth gear', and so use the clutch in the normal way. That said, I do occasioanlly drop down to 3rd (with OD engaged) if I know I'm going back up to 4th (OD engaged) simply because 4th-3rd-4th is quicker than OD out then back in again; at least on mine. It's easy though (in the beginning) to forget about the OD, and arrive at a junction and then realise that the OD is still engaged! But then, it's simple to disengage it when stationary.

Diff Lock: well, I'm a novice here but, my understanding is that it should not be used on solid ground offering good grip, although I'm happy to be corrected if that is not the case. It's designed for situations where traction is likely to be lost, and so should only be used in circumstances where that is likely. Someone suggested to me, that wet grass was a good surface to test it on, but I'm yet to get around to this. I must stress again, I'm new to diff lock, and do not fully appreciate it's capabilities and vulnerabilities. I'm sure that one of the more knowledgeable regulars will clarify.

But the best news of all is, that although I bought my Stage 1 to be a 'worker' (lugging my old cars around, taking junk to the tip, and general towing duties) I've found that I absolutely love it!! I've driven it far more than I expected I would, and find I am using it for things I wouldn't have anticipated.

So, most importantly, enjoy it!

[disco2hse]

A few real beginner questions because I've bought it and pick it up in 3 weeks - how do you drive it?

Clutch in to engage and disengage overdrive? Do you need to stop to engage the diff lock? With the centre diff locked 1 front and 1 rear wheel always have drive, is that right?

Just a couple of extra things.

I find it a good idea to double the clutch on 1st and 2nd most of the time. There is a synchro but it isn't the best and if the engine revs are too high when changing up the LT95 can graunch a bit.

You don't need to be stopped to engage/disengage the CDL but I prefer to be. I think the maximum speed is about 25km/hr.

When the CDL is engaged it locks the centre differential in the transfer case so that if either the front or rear wheels lose traction all the engine's power will not be lost to those wheels. Instead the wheels at the other end can still have traction. Note that the centre differential was put into the transfer case when LR made their permanent 4WD options. The problem it alleviates is that without the centre differential and when you are on a hard surface such as bitumen, the transfer case can bind up when cornering as slow speeds. The results may then be disheartening.

Having the CDL does not mean that individual wheels at either end will not lose traction where the same situation described above arises, if one wheel loses traction the engine's power will be lost through it. Having the CDL engaged does mean you have a better chance of regaining traction to that wheel because it is probable that the wheels at the other end have not lost traction as well. However if either/both of them have lost traction then you aren't going anywhere fast.

To prevent the situation described you can also have diff lockers installed in the front and rear diff's.

It is a good test of the vehicle to get into some mud or slippery clay and see how having the CDL engaged/disengaged affects the vehicle's forward momentum. Try it in Hi and Lo range too to see how much difference there is in power output from the engine under various situations. For example you don't always need to have Lo range off road and the may be situations where having the CDL engaged is not advisable (one instance I have found is when I am on a slippery sidling, say wet grass, when you might want to let wheels spin rather than grind you down the slope - but you need enough momentum to get past it first).

[stirlsilver]

Just a litte more info on the CDL.

The transmission will wind up on solid surfaces even if you are going straight. Since it is highly likely that all the tyres will not be identical in size you will have all the wheels turning at slightly different rates. Of course the windup occurs much faster when you start turning.

If you try to disengage the CDL when the transmission has wound up (maybe the surface wasn't as slippery as you expected or you accidentally engaged it in the first place) you will find that the indicator light will not go out.

This doesn't mean that it isn't working, it just means that it can't disengage due to the above mentioned windup in the the transmission. In this case you will need to drive forwards (or backwards) and turn the steering from left to right and the indicator light will eventually go out.

The CDL on the stage 1's is pretty tough. I have a front diff lock on mine and I do drive the car pretty aggressively and I am yet to bust the centre diff lock. A word of warning though, if you have standard half shafts in the car try to avoid using wide open throttle when you are loosing traction. Should the tyre that has lost traction spin at a high rate and then suddenly regain traction you will break either one of the half shafts, a diff or a CV.

If you look at my youtube videos and watch the one called Camp Road, that is probably how you shouldn't drive. I had put the diff in just before that weekend and when I came back I pulled the diff out to fit the locker and I had found that the LH front half shaft splines had actually twisted by about 15 degrees... i.e. almost snapped!

[choc-ice]

Thanks for all the help, I really appreciate it!

Have a look at the bottom of this page for a conversion that might well interest you, although it is a little pricey. It's offered by a technician well known to this forum.

Neat, but £2000? That's a loooong payback

Second, the brakes. I remember first driving mine and wondering how Land Rover ever managed to sell these things legally! V8, drum brakes, no servo?

I thought there was a servo on the Stage 1? Having said that I don't remember seeing one....

[disco2hse]

Second, the brakes. I remember first driving mine and wondering how Land Rover ever managed to sell these things legally! V8, drum brakes, no servo?

Before there were disc brakes there were power assisted drum brake, and before that, hydraulic, and before that mechanical, and before that, a stick held against a wheel rim. Technology is evolutionary in that it changes over time.

Our expectations also change, so it needs to be remembered that once upon a time before many of us were born, people didn't have disc brakes to make them legal.

[Zirynx]

Comment was made with a large dose of 'tounge in cheek'!

[choc-ice]

Comment was made with a large dose of 'tounge in cheek'!

To be honest I could have stuck my tongue out the window and the extra aerodynamic drag would have been as effective as the brakes

Before there were disc brakes there were power assisted drum brake, and before that, hydraulic, and before that mechanical, and before that, a stick held against a wheel rim. Technology is evolutionary in that it changes over time.

Our expectations also change, so it needs to be remembered that once upon a time before many of us were born, people didn't have disc brakes to make them legal.

I used to have a 1964 Tatra with servo drum brakes, it weighed just a bit less than a 109 Land Rover and would stop quite well, even from 100mph. I certainly don't remember raw panic when I hit the brake pedal from low speeds

Meh, it's going for an MoT in a day or two and hopefully I can pick it up on Saturday, can't wait!

And riding past Redbourn, Herts last night I saw a green 109 Stage 1 Safari. Anyone here?