Question for US Stage One owners

[Londoner]

I know of at least six Stage One owners in the US on this board, and I am sure that there may be more.

Anyway, I have a serious question for all US owners based on some information I was recently given.

As you all know once a Land Rover (or any vehicle) hits 25 years old it can be brought in to the US without any hassle as it is exempt from EPA requirements (21 years) and from DOT requirements (25 years).

I am not suggesting the following is true, but if it is it sounds pretty serious to me.

I was talking to a Land Rover dealer in Montana and the question of importing Land Rovers, particularly the Stage One, came up. He has a very interesting position on the whole issue of EPA exemption.

He believes that the law governing emissions and therefore our trucks is the Clean Air Act (CAE), so far I agree. He goes on to say that in order to be legal an engine must meet certain standards as laid down by the CAE, again I agree. He says that in order to be compliant an engine must either be older than the CAE and therefore not covered or it must have been tested and approved by the EPA. What little reading of the act I have done seems to suggest that this is true.

He goes on to say that in order to be outside the CAE the engine in question must be pre 1968 - I disagree because I think it is actually 1966. His position is that the engine in the Stage One is neither old enough nor has it been tested to EPA standards.

I advanced the position that once it is 21 years old the EPA exempts the engine - all of you that imported your truck will be familiar with the declaration you had to fill out. A quick check of the EPA website and a read of their Vehicle Importation Manual seems to support this. I also telephoned the EPA import team and had the same thing confirmed - sort of.

I was told that it was an EPA "provision" and it was EPA policy to allow older engines to be imported, but that it is not contained anywhere in the Clean Air Act.

Here is where it gets really funky - my Land Rover contact tells me that although the EPA doesn't enforce the CAE because of their "provision" that other federal agencies do. His position is that the CAE is technically the law and regardless of the EPA's lack of enforcement other agencies can and do prosecute.

I would be interested in anyone else's opinion. I have lived in the US long enough to know that the federal law is a very complex animal. I have also had the misfortune to spend the last four years in law school - this has got me thinking - it wouldn't be the first time that one branch of law enforcement has given the okay only to have another branch take a completely opposite stance.

IF he is right, and I do say "if", then all of our Stage Ones are technically illegal. The question is what to do next? Should one take a chance that they will never look in to one little old Landy? I don't know. I don't know what can be done if he is right.

I don't mean to cause any controversy or to upset anyone. I thought that this was a serious enough topic that we should all know that it is at least a possibility, even if a remote one. There is a great deal of collective knowledge on this forum, perhaps we can pool our resources and answer this question?

Thanks,

Alan.

[Ginga]

Blimey very interesting. Of which I know nothing

A question I always ask is "What’s the worst that can happen"

The Best being that you keep your Landy

1.Hornest nest??? ........ maybe leave well alone.

2. Surely Landrover did some sort of "emissions Kit" for foreign market Landrovers. Fitting of such a devise may negate any potential for action against you, or at the very least show you in a more favourable light in the event of Authorities bringing action against you.

Does anyone know of such emission apparatus ?

Regards

Ginga

[firemanshort]

Did you contact Big Sky Rovers? Creed Evans, the owner, has a reputation for having extreme opinions on all things. Do some searching on his name in google to get a more complete picture. He also sells imported Candadian Defender parts to Series owners as an upgrade path so the Stage One is a threat to his business model.

If it was not him then disregard all above.

From what I have learned, the regulations that you mention above are somewhat accurate. The "problem" would appear if you registered your Stage One in a State that had stricter laws than the Federal laws. Some counties or cities may require emissions testing for old cars, too. In Virginia and Loudoun County - these are not problems for me. Overall, I think the window of exposure to this problem is pretty small.

-Firemanshort

[Londoner]

David,

You have identified the correct individual, and I do agree that his views on the import regulations can be considered extreme. However, just because his viewpoint is extreme it shouldn't be dismissed out of hand - after all even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

I must confess that some of his creditability disappears when I consider that he won't respond to my direct questions about who has been prosecuted, where, by whom, and under what statute.

Still, there is some validity in his claim - i.e. the provisions of the Clean Air Act haven't been changed or repealed. The EPA "provision" allowing entry of our trucks doesn't have the same authority as if it were included in the language of the statute.

Anyway, I am more inclined to just go on about my business of getting my Stage One up to scratch for registration in California. You were right as identifying that as a problem - although I consider the Federal problem, if it exists, to be the bigger problem.

The simple fact of the matter is that I can't get my Landie to meet CA regs in its present condition; it would just cost too much money. My plan is to locate an engine from an early Disco or Rangie with all the applicable smog equipment attached and throw that in to the Stage One - although if you know of anyone that is interested in a Stage One on your side of the country where they don't have the same stupid requirements as California, then I am open to offers (sensible ones).

If you have any more information on the Montana individual but don't want to post it then I would love to know more - I think you should have my email address - drop me a line and fill me in on your experiences.

Alan.

[arcticrover]

Hey man don't freak out too much. I am from CA and have dealt with this kind of thing in the past. I now like in Anchorage, AK and can tell you that once you have made it through Customs and gotten the EPA/DOT stamp during import, you are forever good to go as far as the feds are concerned. You won't be seeing any feds checking under your hood if you have your import documentation in order. However, in states/municipalities such as ours is where the trouble begins. I for instance have to have every last bit of the original emission equipment as it was installed in the UK when it was sold. Same carbs, same heat risers, etc. And I have to pass a tail sniff, as well. Drawback to living in Anchorage, Alaska. I assume cali is pretty similar.

Now there is no reason to put a rangie/disco engine with all the 1990s era emissions equipment in. If it wasn't originally installed on your vehicle, you shouldn't have to have it. Don't give up hope THAT easily. That being said, if you do decide to get rid of the lady or if you have some engine parts to get rid of, please let me know.