Replacement ignition system - advice/help requried

Technical questions and answers
nzlromacka
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Replacement ignition system - advice/help requried

Post by nzlromacka »

Hi Guys,

My ex NZ Amry v8 109 has a hybrid 24V electronic Mallory ignition system installed. The NZ Army had a fleet of 24V Landrovers and the ignition module is now faulty and cannot supply good spark. After much searching, I know that it is impossible to source replacement parts for the 24V ignition system, so I want to revert back to a standard 12V points system as originally fitted.

Heres my plan:
1. Purchase complete secondhand rover distributor from a SD1 car 3.5 V8.
2. Purchase new HT leads and plugs.
3. Purchase new 12V coil.
4. Install all of the above and install a 24V relay on ignition circuit. This relay will then feed 12V from one of the batteries to the 12V ignition system.
5. Have my mechanic retune the vehicle.

Do any of you see any problems with the above plan? Will the distributor fit my 1984 vintage 3.5 V8? I know that one of the batteries may not receive a full charge, but the truck does hardly any kms and the batteries are normally stored on a maintenance charger external to the vehicle.

Any advice really appreciated.

Cheers
Andrew
Andrew MacGowan
Wellington, New Zealand
1971 Series IIA ex NZ Army SWB "Skippy"
1984 Series III ex NZ Army S1 V8 LWB "Battletruck"
1965 NZ Army "No 5" Brockhouse Trailer
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choc-ice
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Post by choc-ice »

Will the advance curve of an SD1 distributor be the same as that of the Stage 1?

I know next to nothing about Land Rovers but with other cars swapping distributors around isn't always as straightforward as you'd hope!
map1275
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Post by map1275 »

Last week on Trade Me some one was selling a job lot of the local Mallory conversion parts (N.O.S). I certainly got the impression that everything was still readily available. As there were no Lucas parts I wasn't bidding.

I was of the understanding that all NZDF Stage Ones were 24 volt standard. I would suspect this was with the Lucas 24V suppressed distributor and leads. These are still available new but can be extreme in cost. Most are now electronic intended for Wolf variants.

I personally don't like the idea of bits and pieces. I would either keep the entire vehicle 24 volt or change everything to 12. You may well get a scare when the 100 amp generator dies.

New Mallory (normal 12 volt) distributors are available new. I believe you have a choice of points or electronic and an advance curve similar to what you want.

New Lucas (normal 12 volt) distributors are available new genuine or repro. You have a choice of points or electronic and an advance curve similar to what you want.

I couldn't get one for my vehicle so had to settle for the non emission curve.

If you have charging/storage system issues, you need to get these fixed first.
redtailhawk
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Post by redtailhawk »

Hi the stage 1 12v distributor is 35D8 which the early range rovers use but from 87 they switched to 35DLM8 electronic ignition on the range rovers. On www.landrovernet.com web site there is a thread saying that you can swap to the electronic version as long as you change to the matching coil as well was thinking of doing this mod when i have sorted everything else out.
Darren
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sebking
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agreed

Post by sebking »

agree with what Redtailhawk says.

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gary_in_nz
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Post by gary_in_nz »

there should be bits around, a few modern trucks are 24 volt, my nissan patrol is.

1 thing you need to be aware of is that drawing 12volts from the 12v battery in a 24v system can be dangerous as the 12v battery wont be getting any charge. you will have to purchase a Charge equalizer, which arent cheap.
the only trouble is to find one that can handle decent amps to supply the motor. i think converting the whole truck 12 volt would be easier.

I ended up putting one in my Patrol so i could run 12v appliances such as a stereo and compressor. Red Arc are very good brand, and i will be looking at installing one in my army landrover soon.
"If it ain't v8, take it back"
nzlromacka
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Post by nzlromacka »

Hi Guys, and thanks to all for the input so far.

Gary, does your truck still have the Army enclosed electronic ignition module on the passengers side front guard? This is what I have to replace, and both I and a couple of other ex NZ Army V8 Owners face a similar issue in that the parts in these hybrid modules (that were built specifically for the NZ Army) are no longer available. The guiy on Trade mE has a few of the bits, buts wants $3500.00 NZD for them!!!

This is the reason I (and a couple of others) are looking at returning to the original all points distributor that the trucks were originally supplied with. A friend of mine at SPEL who maintained the last of the Army landrovers before sale, advises that even the Army reverted the last of landrovers back to points due to the issues caused by the Army ignition systems.

I understand the issues about not charging one of the 12V batteries, but my truck does less than 1000kms per year and the batteries are charged by a independent external charger when not in use. I have been thinking of using a 24-12VDC voltage reducer on the ignition circuit to feed the 12V supply to the new coil and distributor. Such a device is readily available and not to expensive.

What do you guys think of this option?

Cheers
Andrew
Andrew MacGowan
Wellington, New Zealand
1971 Series IIA ex NZ Army SWB "Skippy"
1984 Series III ex NZ Army S1 V8 LWB "Battletruck"
1965 NZ Army "No 5" Brockhouse Trailer
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gary_in_nz
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Post by gary_in_nz »

hey mate, yeah mine is still the original army coil and ignition setup. mines not too old, i guess i was one of the lucky ones to get the full service history from the army on my truck.

maybe converting to 12 volt then get a new after market electronic ignition setup might be the go. $3500 you could pick up another army v8 and use for bits less than that. (actually for $3500 you could pick up a 3.9L Disco swap motor and other 12 volt bits over and go from there!!)

i guess its up to you which is the most cost effective as you say its only used 1000kms per year. mine was like that then i lent it to my old man and its now his work wagon, he loves it. i'm happy its getting used and is kept in good nick and its always there if i need it.
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db
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Post by db »

I don't know anything about the NZ military modifications.

However, it should only be the coil that's voltage dependent and the standard 12V points setup actually uses a 6V coil fed through a dropper resistor. The resistor is bypassed when cranking by an auxiliary contact on the starter solenoid to boost the spark (it probably only gets about 8V anyway with the starter loading the battery).

Maybe you could do something similar with a 12V coil in a 24V system?

David
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bigshelf
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Post by bigshelf »

My NZ ex-army landy is running a 12V ignition system with all other aspects still 24V. It uses one of the Lucas 35D distributers mentioned above along with a 7V coil and has been all good - until recently that is. One of the batteries has just died (dropped a cell or two) and it just so happens to be the one that the ignition is running from.
I would have thought that the big alternators that these things run would more then happily keep both batteries in a state of charge but maybe not.
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5988
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Post by 5988 »

i can see there being a problem with running a 2v system via a voltage dropper (with or without resistor depedning if 12v or 6v coil)
id suggest a distributor from a similar aged RR or stage 1 not an SD1
SD1's had higher compression engines, differnet carbs,different cams,and gave there power/torque at higher revs so probably had a different advance curve
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gary_in_nz
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Post by gary_in_nz »

bigshelf wrote:My NZ ex-army landy is running a 12V ignition system with all other aspects still 24V. It uses one of the Lucas 35D distributers mentioned above along with a 7V coil and has been all good - until recently that is. One of the batteries has just died (dropped a cell or two) and it just so happens to be the one that the ignition is running from.
I would have thought that the big alternators that these things run would more then happily keep both batteries in a state of charge but maybe not.
yeah thats what i would have thought as well. i had someone explain it to me but i cant remember the technical side, basically that battery doesn't get a sufficient current to replace what is being drawn off it. i put a charge equalizer in my nissan patrol for about $350 nz and it is worth every penny.

how long did your batteries last?? i would say that if the ignition was running off it it would only last 12hours driving (of course depending on brand of battery, age etc...)???
"If it ain't v8, take it back"
Kiwistage1V8
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Post by Kiwistage1V8 »

Here is the best solution to the 24 volt mallory army system which is constantly plagued by module problems.

First up, you need to know that the 589ARMY dizzy is actually a unilite.

Now, this is what I did to sort mine out.....

I used an internal module, which is a Mallory espark 6100m which I fitted inside the original army Mallory distributor, a Mallory promaster e-series coil part # 30440, and a mallory 700 ballast resistor, and a voltage converter to run the whole shebang.

Simple stuff, when you nut it all out.
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Kiwistage1V8
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Post by Kiwistage1V8 »

The original dizzy internals


Image
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Kiwistage1V8
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Post by Kiwistage1V8 »

Dizzy with the new internal module fitted

Image
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