Diff Locker for Stage One

Technical questions and answers
Post Reply
User avatar
firemanshort
Posts: 378
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:42 pm
Location: Loudoun County, VA - near Wash DC

Diff Locker for Stage One

Post by firemanshort »

I am thinking about jumping into the world of DIFF LOCKS for my Stage One. But, I am not looking to go crazy.

My thoughts are an auto-locker. I really do not want to hassle with installing air compressors and such and then running lines and switches. Plus, I am only looking for the little extra push - not ready to climb trees.

I am also thinking the budget will only support in the install of one. So, do I go front or rear?

Then there is the choice between Trutrak or Detroit? I can not really see the difference in them by just reading descriptions online.

Finally, I have a bone stock Stage One. I assume that I have 10 spline axles but have not real idea. Does anyone know what was standard or do I need to go pull the axles and look before ordering?
-----------------------------------
Firemanshort
Image
Virginia, USA
map1275
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:48 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Post by map1275 »

I'm also in the same boat but with less choice.

Front (banjo) is the easiest to install. Rear (Salisbury) really requires the whole axle (rear end) assembly to be removed. There is also the logic of the front being the first axle to get bogged. Therefore the most likely place to put the locker.

I prefer and want a vacum operated unit. Therefore using the same available energy as the centre diff. However Maxi drive have gone out of business. I have little use or space for an electric pump or air tank.

Isn't it 24 spline for Stage one?

Is the Detroit unit a lockable diff or an LSD?
disco2hse
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Auckland NZ

Post by disco2hse »

Alan

1983 ex-army FFR 109 Stage 1
2005 Disco 2 HSE TD5
User avatar
gary_in_nz
Posts: 138
Joined: Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:57 am
Location: Gisborne, New Zealand
Contact:

Post by gary_in_nz »

tell ya what, if i was gona put one in, it would be the rear. unless you have some mean muscle arms, it will be quite heavy!! also the auto lockers are not really good when in situations where you dont want a locker engaged, ie. steep decent, down a slippery winding track...
could get nasty!!
"If it ain't v8, take it back"
stirlsilver
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:45 am
Location: Wheelers Hill, Victoria, Australia
Contact:

Post by stirlsilver »

Don't get an auto locker
Mine has got a front maxi drive in it and there has been a number of times where there is little traction but you need to have the locker off. Why? Because the cars turning ability is greatly reduced.

You really need the control of knowing wether your locker is on or off. As gary said, if you were going down a steep slippery hill that had a turn on it you might try to turn and find that the locker has automatically engaged and sent you straight for the edge.

Really, don't get an auto locker.

You will feel a front locker much more than a rear one in terms of the steering. When I have the front locker engaged you immediately feel it. If you are going straight the steering will want to stay straight. It is actually impossible to turn the steering on firm ground with the front locker engaged.

Another thing to consider on wether to go front or rear is that a front locker puts a lot more load on your CV's. I'm told that stage one cv's are the toughest there is and equivalent replacements are no longer available. So a front locker puts you at risk of braking a cv and once you break one you will keep breaking them.

However, at the end of the day, I haven't broken a CV yet... but it doesn't mean that I won't.

With a rear locker you will just brake axles which are alot easier to come by.
Bsfaxle
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:35 pm
Location: Australia

Post by Bsfaxle »

Auto lockers on front diff ( constant 4 wheel drive ) probably a no no.
Constant 4x4 front diff applications have found them to be 1. Noisy in operation clicks when turning . 2. Makes the steering harder with (percieved)less turning circle 3. Drive train and tyre wear and fuel economy up (bitiumin usage) Best suited to part time 4x4 front diffs. Auto lockers are always on and slip when they need to. turning etc As mentioned by others on a slippery down slope (sometimes)will " tractor" u ahead straight instead allowing of turning.
I've had vac lockers on landrover rear salisburys and the only "there" when needed works a treat. Don't use a true locker in the front when turning unless you have plenty of $ designed for "tractoring " in straight line plenty of slip conditions
www.mcnamaradiffs.com.au has some good stuff. I,ve bought tough (6 pin)carriers and axles of him no failures yet
Big Red
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Aug 08, 2008 7:30 am
Location: Melbourne Aust

Post by Big Red »

Hi Stirlsilver
Pete from Eltham here.
Do you have an overdrive ftited to your vehicle?
stirlsilver
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:45 am
Location: Wheelers Hill, Victoria, Australia
Contact:

Post by stirlsilver »

Big Red wrote:Hi Stirlsilver
Pete from Eltham here.
Do you have an overdrive ftited to your vehicle?
Hi Pete,
No I don't have an overdrive fitted. I bought a new set of transfer box gears. I think the ones I got were the 0.992:1 gears which made the gearbox fine for on road use. I think this ratio is the same as the range rover gearing.

With these transfer gears the engine will sit at 2500rpm @ 100km/h on 30" tyres. Also, this change doesn't affect your low range gearing.
djam1
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:59 am
Location: Karratha WA

Post by djam1 »

The Simplest and cheapest way with a Stage 1 is to put a Detroit Locker in the Salisbury it has 24 spline axles already but I personally chose to upgrade to Maxi Axles.
They are very effective often criticised by those who havent used them, they are not perfect but will offer the best bang for your buck.

Duane
landdani
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: damascus

Post by landdani »

Hi,
Out of the subject :? , whay not use the diff. lock in "steep decent, down a slippery winding track... "
wonderful sport!
1984 SeriesIII ex-melitary, 109 inch, V8 stage one
stirlsilver
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:45 am
Location: Wheelers Hill, Victoria, Australia
Contact:

Post by stirlsilver »

landdani wrote:Hi,
Out of the subject :? , whay not use the diff. lock in "steep decent, down a slippery winding track... "
The purpose of a differential is to allow the car to turn without making the tyres slip on the road or track. As soon as a front or rear locker is engaged the car will only want to keep going straight, you can make the car turn but it is a lot harder.

When you are on a slippery surface it is hard to make the car go where you want it to go, with a locker on it only makes it worse. In some cases if the locker is on, the car will go straight no matter where you point the front wheels. That is why it is important for you to have the option of having the locker on or off.
landdani
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: damascus

Post by landdani »

Hello stirlsilver, nice to see you here, how is your disco?
You can really have an "unexpected" answers, firest the "diff. lock" is the magic solution, and second it is a "bad choise". :shock:
wonderful sport!
1984 SeriesIII ex-melitary, 109 inch, V8 stage one
stirlsilver
Posts: 339
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:45 am
Location: Wheelers Hill, Victoria, Australia
Contact:

Post by stirlsilver »

landdani wrote:Hello stirlsilver, nice to see you here, how is your disco?
You can really have an "unexpected" answers, firest the "diff. lock" is the magic solution, and second it is a "bad choise". :shock:
Hi Landdani, I still haven't taken the discovery to the workshop yet. So no progress...Hopefully soon though!

I never said a locker was a bad choice. They are a great modification for anyone who wants to try and do harder tracks in their car. All I am saying is that if you are going to install a locker to your car get one where you can choose to turn it on or off. Automatic lockers can sometimes turn on in places where you don't want them to and make things difficult or dangerous.
landdani
Posts: 274
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2008 12:40 pm
Location: damascus

Post by landdani »

Dear stirlsilver, what I wanted to say is that I found out that the diff lock is "not good all the time", wich is something new for me. :wink:
I used to think that you should use the diff. lock in all 4x4 moments.
wonderful sport!
1984 SeriesIII ex-melitary, 109 inch, V8 stage one
Davo
Posts: 76
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2007 3:54 am
Location: Fitzroy Crossing, Australia

Post by Davo »

Yes, the centre diff lock - the one in the gearbox that every Stage I has - should be used when off-road. Axle diff locks you use only when you need them for a tricky section.
Post Reply