Restoration

Technical questions and answers
Cliff4WD
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: Restoration

Post by Cliff4WD »

Engine

Having now put 2 restoration jobs to one side while I wait for materials to arrive, not being one to waste time, I decided it was high time I made a start on the engine.
My plan has been to take a look at the condition of the cam and followers and to proceed from there based on what I find. I also decided some time ago now to fit an Edelbrock 500 4 barrel carb, with upgraded amplified electronic ignition, and a Piper cam. Of course, I don't want to splash out and order all that lot without inspecting what I have first.

The V8 was running lovely and smooth when I got it and was holding good oil pressure at c. 40psi. I know it was an RPi Engineering rebuild of a 9.35:1 compression Range Rover Classic 11D prefix A suffix engine. It should be in in good shape and certainly seemed to be when I took ownership. So, time to make a start.

Problem one is getting the lump off the dolly on the floor and up onto my engine stand.

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I'll save you the rather farcical description of my solo efforts to mount the engine. Suffice it to say, it took a 'lot' of effort and fannying around to get it up so high. I hadn't really thought about how high up the stand sits.

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After taking an extended break to recover some energy and settle my shattered nerves, I could think about stripping it down.

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Off with the various hoses, plug leads, and distributor cap. I hadn't realised the PO had replaced the Mallory with an Autosparks job. The Distributorguy will not be impressed!

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I'd had the bolts on the exhaust manifolds soaking in penetrating fluid and decided to have a go at removing them. I was totally surprised to find that all the bolts were relatively loose. No studs, just nice easily undone bolts. Well, there's a thing!

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I'll get the manifolds shot blasted and see if I can get some ceramic paint or something for them.

As the engine is still full of oil, I thought I'd best drain it now before I end up forgetting and getting oil everywhere. That wouldn't be fun.

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Oh my Lord, that oil is black. Don't see or feel any metal in it, but the colour 😱

Well, that's where I'm up to and that's my write ups up to date. So that's it for now.
Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
disco2hse
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Auckland NZ

Re: Restoration

Post by disco2hse »

Very interested to see you how you go with the skirting. That is a common problem.

I would stick with the original heater matrix. The size and number of fine fins suggest faster heat release, allowing better heating of the surrounding air in the box and when turning the heater to cool, a faster change in temperature. The new one looks like a standard radiator core. They require a lot of air to move through to be efficient. Probably more than what passes through the heater box.
Alan

1983 ex-army FFR 109 Stage 1
2005 Disco 2 HSE TD5
Cliff4WD
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: Restoration

Post by Cliff4WD »

Back on the V8 and removed the inlet manifold.

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Now, similar to the exhaust manifolds, the bolts were not too tight: apart from two! These were seized solid and wouldn't budge. I heated them, soaked them in penetrant, and tried carefully to crack them off. However, both sheared off 😤😠 I'm so peed off with myself as I tried really hard to avoid that happening. So I'm left with 2 bolt ends to extract. I think I'll try welding on a nut and see if that will work. The one closest to the front actually looks like it might have been cross threaded. What a pain.

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I welded a nut onto the back one as it was a little longer so would hold the nut better. Complete failure; the nut just sheared off again. I couldn't get a strong enough weld that would take the torque. Will have to be plan B then and drill them out. B*****ks!

Oh well, get on with it for now, so lifted the cover and inspected. All nasty black burnt oil making it all look filthy, but very little wear.

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Rocker covers off...

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...and remove RH rocker...

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...pull out the push rods and remove the cam followers

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The cam looks like new. I can see no wear on the lifters

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...and the followers (tappets) are pristine. There's no wear at all.

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Time to lift the heads

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Same story, the gasket is like new but the pistons are covered in sooty carbon.

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The cylinder bores look like they were just honed

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Well, that's me for today. Workshop floor has a pile of parts to clean and tidy...

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... Timing chain and oil pump to inspect, as well as upending it and taking sump off. I won't be trying to check bearing condition as it was all rebuilt at the same time so I don't see why the bottom end should be any different to the top.

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I also have a bench full of parts to clean.

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So, not being an engine builder, or having any real experience of what I've been looking at, any expert advice or guidance would be most gratefully received. Unless I've totally misunderstood what I've found and how I've interpreted it, I think that I have a very low mileage V8 (since it was rebuilt at least). Thing is, that rebuild was done in 1996, which is 24 years ago now. I know nothing of its former life other than what I was told by the guy who bought it then sold it on to me. He thought it was 110k, but I have no clue where he got that from. The odometer in the vehicle reads rather less.

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I'm inclined to think that the vehicle lived a rather gentle life after it was first restored, and that those 12474 miles are the genuine mileage it has done since. Please do let me know if you think differently. Either way, I now have some decisions to make on what to replace or not now it is all in bits.
Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
Zazwaldo
Posts: 12
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:49 pm

Re: Restoration

Post by Zazwaldo »

Hi Cliff

Weld a m8 or m10 washer to the broken studs then weld nut to the washer on 3 flats.

Get plenty of heat into the washer weld, like doing a plug weld.

Much easier to weld washer even when stud is broken flush. And welding nut to washer easier too!

Let the heat soak in then wind out.

Casings are alloy so mig won’t affect.
disco2hse
Posts: 1591
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Auckland NZ

Re: Restoration

Post by disco2hse »

The carbon build up looks like lot's of short runs and not enough long periods of running.
Alan

1983 ex-army FFR 109 Stage 1
2005 Disco 2 HSE TD5
Cliff4WD
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: Restoration

Post by Cliff4WD »

Hi Alan, That would fit with what I think may have been the vehicles previous life. I think it may have been used on a pheasant shoot, so never went out on the road but stayed on the estate. If this is the case, then it suppprts the low miles theory and also the absence of any MOT history before it was given one before sale. I think the vehicle stayed in the same ownership all of it's life up until it was inherited and sold on. All good news for me really as I get the benefit. Still, it is old and mileage isn't the be all and end all.
Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
Cliff4WD
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: Restoration

Post by Cliff4WD »

Did a few more hours on it this afternoon. First up I got the heads, rockers, etc., soaking in the parts washer. I then cleaned a couple of the piston crowns to see how coked they actually are. All comes off easily, it's basically just soft sooty carbon, so will all be getting a good clean up soon.
I cracked on and removed oil pump, water pump, and timing chain cover. No nasty surprises and not too much effort required.

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The timing chain is loose, and it's all coated in that dark old oil.

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Spun it over and got the sump off

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So I now have a pile of V8 on the floor

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... and the rest on the stand

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I now have to ponder if it's worth going further and checking the big end and main shells. I'm loath to undo and have to get involved in resetting it all to tolerances if I don't need to. See how I feel about it on Monday.
Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
Cliff4WD
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: Restoration

Post by Cliff4WD »

It's been a week fraught with anxiety. Started wednesday when I spent the day fighting the 2 sheared off V8 inlet manifold bolts. These turned out to be absolute barstewards! Tried welding on nuts, but they just sheared back off. Welded on a washer then the nut, bit stronger but still sheared again. Resorted to drilling which took a long time and and many gradual incremental diameter increases. Even after all the drilling, heating, lubricating, etc., the steel thread that remains still wouldn't budge for love nor money. Ordered a 3/8 UNC helicoil kit and waited for it to arrive. Will have to drill the thread out and tap for the thread insert; see if that works out.

The kit arrived and with much fear and trepidation, I drilled out to the diameter to take the helicoil insert. It worked quite well but I was worried that I'd only just managed to get correctly centred. I still had the second one to drill. It wouldn't have been such a worry if I could have fixed the head down and used the pillar drill, but after struggling for a couple of hours trying to work out a way to bolt the head to the drill table and line it up at the correct angle, and get the hole in line with the bit, I gave up and resigned to using the hand drill.

I put the head back on the bench and put a bit of markup blue on the bolt to better see for centre punch.

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It was then a matter of centre punching dead centre, which I just about managed. Then for pilot drill. Now, the bolt in there was a hard high tensile one, so not an easy thing to drill into, so again, it was a slow process of incremental drilling. Anyway, got there eventually and tapped the thread for the insert

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...and screwd in the helicoil

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What a balls ache this has been. I was terrified I was going to destroy the head. I just hope it all lines up and holds tight when the new intake manifold gets fitted.
Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
Cliff4WD
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: Restoration

Post by Cliff4WD »

Having dealt with the trauma of the seized inlet manifold bolts, I needed some less stressful tasks to calm my nerves. Cleaning seemed the obvious as there was a lot of that to do. I got to work and applied a bit of elbow grease.

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With the block and pistons decoked and cleaned, it was back on the heads.
I removed the valves and got to work cleaning the heads. RH one so far.

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The valve guides are good, no play, and the valves are good, all seating nicely with no pitting. I'll just give them a light lapping to make certain they're good. Interestingly, there were no stem seals on the guides. Well, actually there were some remnants of flat washer type seals, but not the later cup type. I have a bit of updating to do.
Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
Cliff4WD
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: Restoration

Post by Cliff4WD »

I've been hard at it working on the heads. Continuing with the RH head, lapped the valves

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...then I cleaned and checked it was flat. I used a sheet of 10mm glass as my flat surface, with a 4mm sheet laid on top as my sacrificial layer. A little fine grinding paste in white spirit and a few figure of eight passes had the main face and inlet port face nice and clean and flat.

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I checked with a straight edge

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That's RH done...

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...and the valve gear cleaned and ready to go back when I have new valve seals.

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Now for the LH head.
Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
Cliff4WD
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: Restoration

Post by Cliff4WD »

The LH hand actually looks newer than the RH one. Still needs a good clean though as gasket remnants stuck on the face

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... and pretty grubby elsewhere too with the usual carbon buildup inside the ports and back of the valves, etc.

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The ally has a fair amount of grime and some surface oxidisation

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After a lot of work with various cleaning materials and implements, I managed to get it looking pretty clean. It would be nice to just be able to dip it but I only have basic home diy facilities, so it's elbow grease and manual labour.

Cleaned, flatted and checked, it's now ready for valve lapping. That's tomorrow's job.

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Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
Cliff4WD
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: Restoration

Post by Cliff4WD »

Quick update. I've been busy cleaning and getting overheated in the heatwave here. Not much of interest to show being it's all sweat and grime.

Having finished the valve lapping, I thought I'd take a look at the rocker covers. They were pretty grubby.

Outside...

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... and inside

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So got scrubbing
Outside...

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... and inside
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Managed to get a bit of a polish on them so may stick with the polished look.

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Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
Cliff4WD
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: Restoration

Post by Cliff4WD »

Next job, timing chain cover and oil pump.

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Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
Fish
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 7:35 pm

Re: Restoration

Post by Fish »

Keep up the good work, I've paused but going to start on my axles when I get back form holiday!
Cliff4WD
Posts: 230
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:39 pm
Location: Rye, East Sussex, UK

Re: Restoration

Post by Cliff4WD »

Had a break from it for a bit while I decided what parts to order. It gets a bit tedious endless cleaning so looking forward to putting it back together. Still a few jobs to do first, not least of which is check and clean the rocker shafts and arms.

Strip down and clean and check for wear.
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The shafts and rockers were near perfect. A few witness marks from where it's been together but virtually zero wear, so again, more evidence of very little use since first rebuild.

Reassemble...
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... and like new again
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Also gave the water pump a bit of attention. I thought this might have been corroded but again, it's in great shape.

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The starter motor looked bit rusty so wire brush and rust converter time. Did the alternator too.

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Cliff

1981 109 V8 Stage 1
2000 Discovery 2 Td5

109 V8: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2161
My Disco Thread: http://www.thed2boysclub.co.uk/viewtopi ... =3&t=58130

LAND ROVER. TURNING OWNERS INTO PAUPERS FOR 70 YEARS
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