Steering damper

Technical questions and answers
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Glen
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:45 pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Steering damper

Post by Glen »

These things seem to be a bit of a 'marmite' device as many seem to think they are useless and just make steering heavy, at least on a series, though LR engineers seem to think they are worth fitting to basicly any coil (or air) sprung model with a steering box and they seem to be a fairly popular original fitment on series models from the 70's too. Its therefore possable peoples opinions on them is based on ageing steering systems that aren't quite right in the first place which probubly isn't fair.

So, my perspective...
I've been driving series 1's for about 15 years. These don't have dampers fitted and Rover had a few attempts at getting the steering right as early models in particular were very poor and I don't think the really fixed it in the S1 era. Mine's a late model so its got a recirculating ball steering box (much lighter than worm and nut and basicly the same as a series 3) and its had the Ralco bush conversion done too, so again basicly the same as a series 3. The steering on it is nice and light and generally it didn't suffer from wheel shimmy though can obveously kick back when off roading or hitting a bit pot hole. Recently its started suffering shimmy but the bottem bush of the relay is failing so thats due a rebuild.

Enter the stage 1. This thing does have a damper fitted (Branded Woodhead, looks OEM) and the steering is really heavy making manovering really quite hard work in comparison. I've taken the damper off and its made it considereably lighter (though still not as light) but now it suffers a fair bit of shimmy when driving on the terrable roads of Sheffield. I've not yet had the steering rods off to conferm the swivels and relay have the right resistance but it certainly seems the damper is doing something useful even if its stiffness is undesirable (on the open road its much nicer with the damper than anything I've driven without!). Given that it'll reduice impacts reaching the steering relay, and the series 1 has proved that will obveosuly suffer over time I'm inclined to say they are worth having.

So, my question is what do others think and are there any upgrade units out there that work better than the seemingly quite stiff unit I currently have. It seems the unit used on series 3's is also the unit used on the track rod of Range Rovers and Discos, defenders use a bigger one but its in the same place as a series 3. I'm wary of compairing the views of people mounting them on coil sprung models though because as they are pritty much universally power assisted any weight increase from the damper will probubly be unnoticed on that setup.

As for the dampers of today there are many about all claiming to be much better than the original, which is plausable as damper tech and cost has changed a bit since the series 3 was designed, so something with a more fancy valve and not so specced on mass market cost of 70's BL accountants could well be better, though its also possable they are now optimised for the PAS setup of Discos and RRCs and simply sold for series 3's as they also fit, but don't quite suit.

The options seem to be:-
1) Undamped - Don't think I like this option long term.
2) Original - definately works (indeed it seems in good condition though I guess the oil will be a bit old and I don't know how that will effect it).
3) New pattern - cheep but who knows what quality - I don't want to keep changing it every year.
4) New OEM/genuine - probubly as expencive as a 'performance' one and if its New Old Stock it might not be any better than mine if its spent 20 years in a box.
5) Britpart performance - theres a few veriants of these all claiming what the proper brands do only 1/2 the price, I won't be buying one out of principle, if they do work they probubly won't last and when theres another option I don't like endorsing/substadising britpart as they I've had plenty of junk from them in the past.
6) Pro Comp = These are a popular budget performance brand but I've had their dampers on vehicles in the past and their build quality, in my view, is poor, they also seem to consider length as the primary spec and completely ignore anything about damping rates, seems you can do better for simular money.
7) Monroe - Had some shocks on a series 3 and they were great, not that expencive either.
8) Old Man Emu - cost is starting to rise but they seem to be well built and if they can deal with the outback (which from what I hear tends to distroy genuine LR shocks) that doesn't sound bad - will a 9 stage valve keep it light but still absorb big hits or higher frequencys?
9) De Carbon - Got one on a 90 at work, along with shocks, seem to work fine but its a gas damper so it extends to full length naturally, would this be noticeable on manual steering?
10) Bilstin - expensive but I had some shocks on a RRC and they were great, gas so naturally extend?
11) Koni - Simular price and rep to Bilstin from what I can see though I've not any expereance with their products.

Most annoyingly technical info and specs on any of the above seems non existant so so I can't really compare them on paper. Some of the posh ones boast how many stages the valves have but I don't know what the standard ones have so that might not be as impressive as it seems.

I know there are a few people on here from the Southern Hemisphere so I'm perticularly keen on your views as you lot seem to push damping and suspension components a bit harder than we do in Europe, as for me a long off road track is about 5 km, though the main roads round me are crap so its far from smooth tarmac for me (thats why I like Land-Rovers, busted tyres and cracked alloys is rarely a problem unlike in a car).

Glen
map1275
Posts: 1076
Joined: Mon Jul 21, 2008 2:48 am
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Re: Steering damper

Post by map1275 »

I'm not at all sure what your question is.

Yes, no one prints specs so it's down to salesmanship and owner gullibility for buying the wiz-bang brands. I buy genuine or the basic direct replacement item such as BOGE. And BOGE aren't as good as people profess.

If it's designed for a dampener and you remove it then your vehicle is unsafe and illegal for road use in almost any first world country. Dampeners dampen kick-back/oscillation and that's all.

Series 3 steering boxes come in two ratios. 110/Disco dampeners aren't the same as Series III. The ADF still use the standard Land-Rover part for 110 and these only fail from physical damage or at the bushes.

PAS has been covered so many times on this and other forums I don't want to bother anymore.
Glen
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:45 pm
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Steering damper

Post by Glen »

map1275 wrote:I'm not at all sure what your question is.

Yes, no one prints specs so it's down to salesmanship and owner gullibility for buying the wiz-bang brands. I buy genuine or the basic direct replacement item such as BOGE. And BOGE aren't as good as people profess.
As said I'm asking for others opinions on what works and if theres a better model out there to the one designed 40 years ago (I know when it comes to suspension dampers, original are adequate but you can do much better if you want to). I know opinions are subjective but its worth asking, especally given the lack of comparisons avalable to what 'better ones' actully achive.
If its likely the original gets stiffer over time then then thats probubly my problem and getting a newer one will help?
If it's designed for a dampener and you remove it then your vehicle is unsafe and illegal for road use in almost any first world country. Dampeners dampen kick-back/oscillation and that's all.
Steering dampers were optional on a series 3 and not (originally) fitted to earlier models with basicly the same setup so its not ilegal to remove them (certainly from a UK perspective which is relevant to me, local laws may vary).
Series 3 steering boxes come in two ratios. 110/Disco dampeners aren't the same as Series III. The ADF still use the standard Land-Rover part for 110 and these only fail from physical damage or at the bushes.
Checking the box ratio is probubly a good idea actully, it certainly feels like I'm spinning the wheel for ever (or maybe thats just a side effect of 7 point turns) though if it was a low ratio box (presumably with more turns) would that not make the steering lighter? Is there an easy way to tell? They are varaiable ratio through the turn so its not a direct calculation across the full arc. The vehicle is unusual as its a Utility Station Wagon and it has a 3 t gross weight, not 2.7 t, I suspect it was a special order built by LR SVO.
According to the parts book the series 3 steering damper is the same part as the RRC, though discos might have a later part - thats all for bog standard factory stuff though, aftermarket stuff is likely talored to the RR/disco market if it is talored at all.
PAS has been covered so many times on this and other forums I don't want to bother anymore.
Not interested in PAS (I didn't ask for it and I specificly stated they have quite different feel that I'm not interested in hearing about), If I wanted a 110 I'd have bought one, the price difference these days makes it stupid buying a series and trying to turn it into something its not. All I'm wanted to do is make this series 3 steer as lightly as others I've driven which were perfectly acceptable, as I have limited expereance on steering dampers I thought I'd ask for some others opinions before potentially wasting money on that, a fair call?
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Geoff
Posts: 599
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 2:21 am
Location: Leicester UK

Re: Steering damper

Post by Geoff »

Most of this thread is over my head. All I know is my Stage Ones are fitted with steering dampers which I can only assume are as original, while the 1975 2.25 I used to own was not - the latter's steering was certainly lighter and in fact pretty nimble I thought on crossply tyres for a 109 Station Wagon. But the Stage Ones go a lot faster and the steering is plenty light enough at speed, which has been proved many a time when idiots pull out in front of me assuming I'm just a 'slow old Land Rover' and braking is just not an option. I'm not Arnold Schwarzenegger and I've been driving a Stage One for 19 years and my arms haven't fallen off yet - don't know why anyone would want power steering.
2 1981 Stage One 109 V8 SWs
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disco2hse
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Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Auckland NZ

Re: Steering damper

Post by disco2hse »

OK, here's my bit.

Had the steering damper and got sick of hauling on the steering wheel while off-roading. Took it off and experienced a little bump steer, so I pumped up the tyres when on-road. I am running 38+ psi on Bridgestone Mud Dueler 671's. Still get a little rarely, only when going over ridges like railway tracks and the like. Very slight tremor.

Took it off about7 years ago. No problems with WOF's.

PAS is mentioned because steering is only difficult when you're stationary. The solution is to move a little or "rocking" by slipping the clutch a bit. While on the go, steering is very good.

As for types, had original (still do somewhere). As said, sales spiel for dampers is like spiel for any other, believe what you will.
Alan

1983 ex-army FFR 109 Stage 1
2005 Disco 2 HSE TD5
Alicerover
Posts: 172
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:34 pm
Location: Leicestershire

Re: Steering damper

Post by Alicerover »

When I rebuilt Alice, I ordered a standard steering damper using the part number from the 'book'.
The steering on Alice is surprisingly light, light enough that I can turn the steering wheel from lock to lock with very little effort whilst moving slowly. (of course when stationary the effort required is considerably more, and anyway you shouldn't 'spin the wheel' while stationary anyway-fastest way to ruin a set of tyres :( )
A lot has to be said about properly maintaining the steering mechanism to ensure correct and smooth operation, but other factors can affect the steering load, type of tyre and pressures are a couple that spring to mind.
Given the state of our roads these days, I wouldn't dream of not having the damper fitted.
Just my thoughts. :)
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firemanshort
Posts: 378
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Location: Loudoun County, VA - near Wash DC

Re: Steering damper

Post by firemanshort »

I am looking at replacing my steering damper as part of a major overhaul I am about to perform on my truck.

In the USA - Rovers North is our largest domestic vendor of Land Rover parts. They sell an Old Man Emu (OME) damper that they say fits an early Range Rover, Disco I, as well as a Series III. They have it listed for $98 and have it listed as "heavy duty".

http://www.roversnorth.com/ProductDesc. ... eq=&key=it

So I figure I could deduce from this that a Disco I damper fits a Series truck. But Rovers North lists a TeraFirma part that is only listed for the Disco I and the Range Rover classic ... and for a lot less ($58)

http://www.roversnorth.com/ProductDesc. ... eq=&key=it

Does anyone know if all Disco I and Range Rover Classic dampers fit our trucks?
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Firemanshort
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disco2hse
Posts: 1637
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:51 am
Location: Auckland NZ

Re: Steering damper

Post by disco2hse »

Two things really:
1. You don't need a damper. I took mine off several years ago and never missed it. Sometimes I get a little bump steer but not enough to be of any concern.
2. The dampers provided for Range Rovers and Discoveries assume PAS. You don't have that, so expect the steering to be exceptionally heavy if you use those. Especially when you are stationary.
Alan

1983 ex-army FFR 109 Stage 1
2005 Disco 2 HSE TD5
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