Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

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Geoff
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Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

Post by Geoff »

Does anyone know of a source of info that will correlate the Land Rover part number of a particular Stromberg metering needle with its Zenith number engraved on it. Specifically I'm trying to discover the Zenith number for Land Rover part number AEU3078 which is, according to the 110 Parts Catalogue, supposed to be the correct needle for V8 engines with an engine number commencing 14G. I've managed to correlate a couple from info on dealers' websites, eg AEU1851 seems to be B1FH, but I can't find the one I'm interested in.
2 1981 Stage One 109 V8 SWs
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disco2hse
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Re: Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

Post by disco2hse »

I have a scan of that little black booklet, Tuning Stromburg CD Carburetters, Watkins. Have you seen it? There's a table in the back with different needle types, but it doesn't correlate with LR part numbers.
Alan

1983 ex-army FFR 109 Stage 1
2005 Disco 2 HSE TD5
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Geoff
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Re: Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

Post by Geoff »

Thanks, I have a similar book on the Stromberg carb, which I bought second-hand many years ago, and which also has needle profile charts at the back, and I've just updated it with further needle profile charts from Burlen Fuel Systems, who now own the Zenith, Stromberg and Solex 'brand', but, as you say, no reference to Land Rover part numbers therein, or on their website.

For anyone who has a slightly later Land Rover V8 engine (maybe like me fitted to their Stage 1) and is interested, there are four different metering needles shown in the 110 (up to Aug 86) Parts Catalogue, and I've identified the Zenith number for a couple of them:

I'm now pretty sure AEU3077 ('Engines 15G, 19G & 21G') is Zenith needle B1FK, and AEU1851 (Engines 17G & 22G) is B1FH. I don't know but my educated guess is that the other two, AEU3078 (for Engine 14G) and AEU2462 (20G) are B1FQ and B1FV respectively, but I'm not sure of that. Knowing is the difference between taking Land Rover's (and the parts supplier's) word for it, and paying as much as about £50 for a 'Genuine' needle, and buying a needle you know the exact profile of for about £15 from Burlen.

You can choose a needle using Burlen's website but they use a rather vague guide based on year 'onwards' (they list 6 different needles for the V8 for the years of production of the Stage 1, not including the Range Rover, where my Series 3 Parts Book only lists one!) or carb spec number, if you know it (and which assumes you still have the 'right' spec carb fitted to your engine - or, if you're happy, you can just replace like with like (assuming you have one of course) I did both the latter a couple of years ago when my carbs were rebuilt, replacing the B1FQ needles with new the same, in accordance with the spec number on little aluminium tabs still attached to the carbs, never giving any thought to my engine number - the Burlen site doesn't mention engine numbers, or Land Rover part numbers. I'm happy with the performance of the carbs and the engine except that I'm right on the edge of the idle adjustment for the MOT and I wondered if a slightly wider (at the relevant end) needle might be an answer, which needle B1FV, which the Burlen site says was fitted from 1985 on, happens to be.

I asked Burlen if they could tell me what needle Land Rover part number AEU3078 (for my 14G engine) was, hoping they would say B1FV, but they just replied "AEU3078 can be replaced by B1FQ", which doesn't answer the question, and is what I already have. I am beginning to think AEU3078 is B1FQ. I've asked a couple of suppliers with whom I've spent lots of money in the past who say they have stock of AEU3078 if they'd kindly peer at it and let me know what the minute nearly invisible number engraved on the needle is, but I'm still waiting for a reply (!) ... and not hopeful! :( I'm slightly less willing to experiment with an 'incorrect' needle, especially now I've just learnt from James Taylor's article posted on Rocky80inch's 'New owner of RHP 175R' thread that BMIHT had their own workshops at Studley Castle, which is where the present engine would have been fitted some time in the 80s, when it was their own vehicle, and they probably knew what they were doing.

If anyone at all has been interested enough to read all this, I shall now sit back and wait to be told I don't know what I am talking about. I note the question has been asked before on here - do the carb needles need changing if I remove the restrictors? - and that no one has ever replied - what I've said about identifying needles by a number that enables their exact profile to be ascertained may have some bearing on that question, but I haven't addressed the question directly, because I don't believe this engine was ever fitted with them in the first place, and my carb spec is also later than the year of the vehicle's production.
Last edited by Geoff on Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
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disco2hse
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Re: Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

Post by disco2hse »

You don't know what...

Actually, that is very interesting. I have asked a number of very experienced Landie mechanics over the years about needles and in every case, they have avoided the question. I think their natural instinct is to merely replace like for like, but I am not convinced that this is a good choice. For example, I have SU's + inlet manifold from a Rangie, a block + heads + exhaust manifold from a Disco, and water pump, air filter plumbing and cooling from a Stage 1. There are lots of places in there where performance is compromised, resulting in loss of power or increased fuel consumption (or both).

I wonder if you could buy the needle on indent, read it and send it back if it is the wrong part for you.
Alan

1983 ex-army FFR 109 Stage 1
2005 Disco 2 HSE TD5
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Geoff
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Re: Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

Post by Geoff »

Now that is cheeky! (at £50 it would definitely be the wrong part! - I suppose I could buy a cheap pattern one - would it actually be a genuine Zenith one bought in bulk from Burlen at a discount and resold individually for a small profit, or would the only writing I found on it say Made in China and in Mandarin 'fits any sewing machine'? - I don't know - anyone else?)

I have SUs on my other Stage 1. It goes well enough, they're easy to adjust and have plenty of adjustment when needed, so I don't worry about what's in them. That's probably the attitude of most Landie owners but, in the words of a post I came across on a Jensen Healey forum, "Admittedly, none of this will matter much to most JH owners, but I can see two areas where some might care. First, for cars that fail emissions tests because of excess hydrocarbons at idle ..." (the second was racing cars - and that's certainly not my problem) (For anyone who is interested in this subject, here's the link to that post: http://www.jensenhealey.com/forums/view_topic.php?id=23 )
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disco2hse
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Re: Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

Post by disco2hse »

nahhh not cheeky at all !! :lol:

Mine does have high emissions at idle. So it could be an issue, because the needle is what was there on the Rangie. I had also put that down to the wrong cam shafts.

Clarity is always desirable.
Alan

1983 ex-army FFR 109 Stage 1
2005 Disco 2 HSE TD5
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Geoff
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Re: Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

Post by Geoff »

This chart on Rimmer Bros' website correlates more V8 metering needles' Land Rover part numbers with actual Zenith numbers than any other dealers' websites I've found, including a number of needles I haven't mentioned above (because I wasn't particularly concerned with them), and seems to agree with Burlen's website where carb spec numbers are mentioned:

http://www.rimmerbros.co.uk/Item--i-GRI ... owerFunnel

From this it appears AEU2462 is not B1FV as I guessed but B1FF, which is another wider needle at the shoulder than the B1FQ I've got, and even wider than B1FV. The chart doesn't show AEU3078, which seems to be scarcer, and I can't find a relatively cheap pattern part one anywhere. Of the two dealers I enquired of concerning its Zenith number, one has still not replied and the other (no name mentioned) couldn't be arsed to look on the needle itself, despite claiming to have six in stock and me having spent over £750 with them in the past and enquiring about a part they have priced around £50 :x

I noted Rimmer Bros' chart lists numerous different Zenith needles for the same engines, which I didn't take too much notice of, but that in two instances (carb specs 3677 and 3854) it listed two different Zenith needles for the same carb spec and engines - I guess you really do take 'yer choice.

Here's a link to the Burlen website if you're interested in changing your needles:

https://burlen.co.uk/

They do an SU needle profile chart too:

http://sucarb.co.uk/catalogues-manuals- ... chart.html
2 1981 Stage One 109 V8 SWs
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disco2hse
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Re: Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

Post by disco2hse »

I probably won't bother to change needles right now. We don't have the same idle/emissions rules here. But I'll have a look at it and changing the cams on the next service round.
Alan

1983 ex-army FFR 109 Stage 1
2005 Disco 2 HSE TD5
Lewy
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Re: Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

Post by Lewy »

I need to search for the info I used to put new needles in my 110 when I changed the 3.5 to a 3.9.

I think mine is running a little lean and I will have to look into.

I also need to find my needle adjusting tool.
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Geoff
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Re: Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

Post by Geoff »

I have 4000 spec carbs with B1FQ needles fitted to an apparently more unusual 14G 110 engine, which was installed in the late 1980s by the British Motor Industry Heritage Trust when they owned the vehicle, along with an even scarcer 17C 110 LT95. I'm inclined to think they probably gave some consideration to the carb setup for the engine. I'm not unhappy with its performance and I wouldn't even be considering changing to any other needle if it weren't for emissions testing, which wasn't an issue in the 80s. In the event I got its MOT without too much trouble this year, and I hear there are proposals to extend the rolling 40 year road tax exemption to MOT exemption also, so I'll probably just sit it out if I can - I've only 5 years to wait :(

I've owned this vehicle, which was originally a Land Rover factory off-road demonstration vehicle for a couple of years when new, for 19 years and I'm still investigating its history, and I still haven't found any old photos of it - particularly galling as the diesel Series 3 HCPU with a registration plate only one numeral different is pictured in more than one of James Taylor's books (on the other hand, that vehicle doesn't seem to exist any more, whereas mine does :D )
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Lorentzo
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Re: Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

Post by Lorentzo »

disco2hse wrote:There's a table in the back with different needle types.
Can you post a screenshot of the table?
Last edited by Lorentzo on Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
disco2hse
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Re: Stromberg carb metering needle part numbers

Post by disco2hse »

Lorentzo wrote:
disco2hse wrote:There's a table in the back with different needle types.
Can you post a screenshot of the table?
Too big and too hard (multiple shots required, linking, ...)

Here, use this https://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-ch ... carbs.html
Alan

1983 ex-army FFR 109 Stage 1
2005 Disco 2 HSE TD5
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