Genuine Parts front prop?

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Geoff
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Genuine Parts front prop?

Post by Geoff »

Does anyone think this looks like a Genuine Parts prop for the Stage 1, as is being claimed?:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/153208157432

The part number stated is for the usual Stage 1 prop - is anyone aware of anything like it ever having been fitted to a Salisbury axle? Because I'm not. The only possibility I could think of was a later Shorland Armoured Car with the V8 engine, or possibly some special produced for the SAS with a stronger front axle. If it's an unused Genuine Parts Stage 1 front prop, that would still fit the standard Stage 1 Rover axle, it would appear to be a bargain but I'm sceptical.
Last edited by Geoff on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
2 1981 Stage One 109 V8 SWs
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map1275
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Re: Genuine Parts front prop?

Post by map1275 »

It's a rubbish listing but not sure that I understand your question either.

It's not a period original Saginaw shaft. But there's nothing to say that LR didn't purchase subsequent parts stock from a different supplier. Notable difference is the wiper ring for the slip joint. If the part number is correct then I don't see the problem. I assume he means it's ex MOD stock (so he bought it for nothing).

Have him check the basic measurements.

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Geoff
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Re: Genuine Parts front prop?

Post by Geoff »

Thanks for your input. I asked the seller a load of questions, some of which I still don't have an answer to, about the Salisbury axle, and will press. What he did say is that it came off a Royal Ulster Constabulary armoured Stage 1 V8 'ex reserve' and that he dismantled 'them' - I take the 'them' to mean it was part of his job. Can anyone confirm these had Salisbury axles fitted at the front? And does it matter? - map, do you know or can you see from the photos any reason why this might not fit a standard Stage 1 transfer box and standard Rover front axle and operate satisfactorily? The most obvious difference is no rubber gaiter over the slip joint which hardly matters, and where it bolts to the diff is perfectly round unlike mine, which again I don't see has any significance. But obviously I don't want to spend money on some special application that would only trash the diff or something of the usual Rover axle. I am still googling these vehicles but what I have confirmed so far is that all but two were dismantled so that the armour bodywork could be reused on their later replacements.
Last edited by Geoff on Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2 1981 Stage One 109 V8 SWs
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map1275
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Re: Genuine Parts front prop?

Post by map1275 »

It looks genuine and if it is and the part number is correct then end of story.

I'd suggest you ready your parts list and see if the One Ton version (which steel body armour would mandate) has a Salisbury or ENV front axle assy. and whether the One Ton variant uses the same from prop.

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Geoff
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Re: Genuine Parts front prop?

Post by Geoff »

It looks genuine and if it is and the part number is correct then end of story.
Thanks map. I came across this thread from some years ago on another forum in which the same chap was stated to also have front and rear Salisbury axles from these same vehicles (2nd post down):

https://forums.lr4x4.com/topic/10556-ru ... ering-box/

All sounds pretty genuine and I doubt any cheap pattern parts came anywhere near any of these vehicles considering their use at the time. As for the part number I only have the seller's word for it - the number he quotes is the correct one for the standard 109 V8.
I'd suggest you ready your parts list and see if the One Ton version (which steel body armour would mandate) has a Salisbury or ENV front axle assy. and whether the One Ton variant uses the same from prop.
I wasn't aware that there ever was a One Ton version of the Stage 1. My Series 3 Parts Book shows the ordinary Series 3 One Ton having either a Salisbury or a Rover axle, but no indication they had different front props for each type of front axle (There were two different props but these were for the 4 and 6 cylinder engines) For what it's worth, the prop drawn in the Parts Book looks a lot more like the one on ebay, although without the double joint of course.

I had this from the seller:

"The Salisbury axle on the armoured V8 was specific to that vehicle. Probably produced whilst the 110 was in production as service vehicles were still being requested with the tried and tested leaf springs. The axle was leaf sprung yet 110 width running CV joints and 4.7 ratio.
Some parts were often butchered for this vehicle and as the nose of the dif is longer than that of the rover unit, I'm not sure if the prop shaft was shortened or worked within the working range of the splines. The factory prop is 66cm long...I can go and check"

(This ties in with what I read in that above-mentioned thread) Am waiting to hear back from him about the length, and will be getting a tape measure out to measure mine this afternoon. If the axle was specific to that vehicle, I'm hoping it was made to fit the standard prop, not the prop made differently to fit the axle. The fact that the standard Series 3 One Ton appears to have used the same prop for both kinds of axle seems to suggest that there shouldn't be any other differences necessary and that the different nose length of the diff can be accommodated by the sliding joint - hopefully the same was true for this armoured Stage 1 and its Salisbury front axle. Any further comments much appreciated.
2 1981 Stage One 109 V8 SWs
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map1275
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Re: Genuine Parts front prop?

Post by map1275 »

I still don't see the deep thought issues over a One Ton V8 (your parts book still provides the answers to all the question you are asking). However the steering box conversion (cutting out most of the forum waffle) is very interesting, though it never seemed to cut to the chase on component details.

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Geoff
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Re: Genuine Parts front prop?

Post by Geoff »

Thank you map. The listing has ended. I didn't buy it. I finally deciphered the torn label visible in the listing photograph: Land Rover FRC9762 (not sure why it took me so long - creeping senility?) FRC9762 is for sale in a few places, described as 'FRONT PROPSHAFT HEAVY DUTY SALISBURY AXLE 110 DEFENDER' in one place and as fitting 'the Defender 110 with a Salisbury front axle' in another. I still don't know if it would fit the standard Stage 1 - the seller never got back to me with the dimensions I asked about. I don't know why he listed it as FRC2175 when it's labelled otherwise. Bailey Morris in Cambridgeshire make a version of this axle which you can buy new for £368 (incl VAT) (You can also buy their version of the Stage 1 rear axle - FRC1921 - for £233 incl VAT from the same place, LR Direct, and I've asked them if they also manufacture a version of FRC2175.) I don't know about quality but they have a website:

http://baileymorris.co.uk/

I won't be buying anything from them anytime soon - I look at ebay for bargains, all my props are ok and I already have a pattern front prop bought many years ago and a good used Genuine one as spares, but I've learned a bit, and glad I stumbled upon something you found interesting map!
2 1981 Stage One 109 V8 SWs
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Geoff
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Re: Genuine Parts front prop?

Post by Geoff »

This very prompt reply from Bailey Morris, if anyone's interested:

"Thank you very much for the enquiry.

FRC2175 - Yes we can manufacture this shaft (do not tend to keep it as it is a little more rare than a standard double-cardan Land Rover shaft) it comes with the Saginaw double-joint which has 3”X3” bolt hole centres on the flange.

The FRC9762 is a very similar shaft you are correct but has what we call a 1310SAE flange pattern (common flange fitment on a Defender 110 – 79.6mm PCD on the bolt holes) so you would have fitment issues.

FRC2175 = BM part: 31AS-1 (Build code), we have this @ 650mm between the flanges fitted with the wheels on the ground, comes with the Saginaw double-joint, heavu-duty universal joints, 110mm spline travel and wide angle 30 degree flange yokes also, this is from our Extreme range.

Price: £395.00/net + £12.50 TNT Delivery, we would need just 3-4 days currently to manufacture,

I hope this helps.

If these also help, I have attached our Extreme double-cardan questionnaire, essentially a blank canvas for your new build. You may not need it but if you had any uncertainty on it then it can be a great help if the shaft is off the vehicle."

I note they refer to fitment issues regarding FRC9762 in relation to the Stage 1. So if that was what the prop on ebay was, as the label on it suggested, and BM are right, there would indeed have been a problem fitting it unless it had already been suitably modified.
2 1981 Stage One 109 V8 SWs
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Geoff
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Re: Genuine Parts front prop?

Post by Geoff »

Just as an addendum to the above old thread, I think this ebay listing may be what you would need to make the heavy duty front prop FRC9762 used with the Salisbury front axle fit the LT95 gearbox:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rover-1 ... 1438.l2649
2 1981 Stage One 109 V8 SWs
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